Thank you,
    Roberta

But it sounds like the meaningful dialogue was then thrown out in favor of a closed door meeting with the pastor and a select group of congregants. While the intention for meaningful dialogue was wonderful, it is a shame that it was negated by dysfunctional “cabal” behavior of a few.

Dan Johnson (remember me? Mark’s roommate from North Park? “Uncle Dan” from Camp Squanto?)

Not intended to be defensive – but the impression was given that there was no discussion or thoughtful consideration given to the issue in the church. I simply wanted to point out that there was meaningful dialogue…

Thanks Linnea. I am not intending to say that leaders in the church are without sin – but I am saying that according to Scripture leaders in the church (teaching is certainly one of these positions) automatically places those who lead under a higher level of accountability. (James 3:1)

My question is genuine – What are the qualifications for leadership in the church? Nathan posted his argument for belonging first – but does belonging necessarily mean leadership? Does leadership in the church demand a higher level of accountability or not?

idolaters, adulterers, male prostitues, homosexual offenders, slanderers, swindlers

Okay, well, wow. Let’s break this down here.

Let’s talk about the common denominator of sin. Something that is destructive to self or other, versus loving and caring to self or other.

I’m with you on these…adultery? Destructive towards relationships. Slanders? Destructive towards the individual. Arrogance? Destructive towards others. Murder, thievery, greed. Those are pretty clear cut on the “destruction versus building love” scale.

However, I would posit that a committed, monogamous, loving homosexual relationship between two consenting adults is not destructive to anyone (individuals involved or relationships) but those who fear the “other”. Just as a committed, monogamous, loving heterosexual relationship is not destructive. Both types of relationships multiply love and caring in the context of community, not destruction. Therefore, I would not group a committed, monogamous same-sex relationship into the same category as these others that you’ve mentioned. And if you had the blessed opportunity to live next to a committed, monogamous, same-sex Christian couple, you would see the same devotion, the grace, and the caring that you would wish for any opposite-sex couple.

How would I interpret Cor. 6:9-10? I would say it is complicated. Knowing what I do about the strict gender separation culture of the Middle East, and how there are still problems with men (single or in straight marriages) using young boys/young men as sexual playthings and for social status when they are denied ready access to women, I would wonder about our contemporary and oversimplistic interpretation of some of these passages of the Bible that could be akin to admonitions to not eat shellfish or to not mix fibers in clothing. The predatory nature of bacha bazi or using prostitutes (male or female) is still all too common today and IS destructive. Would I equate a committed gay relationship with bacha bazi or a man using a male prostitute? If I did, I would have to equate a straight marriage with pedophilia or using a female prostitute. And I don’t. It would be insulting to both the same sex couple AND the homosexual couple who are committed to each other and seek to live in grace, peace and love in their community.

First, I believe that one’s sexuality is not a choice, as I have witnessed in growing up with Jim and another close Christian friend, and I do not believe that homosexuality is a sin. As SSjoblad stated above, sexual orientation does not effect one’s ability to share the gospel and show the LOVE of Christ to others.

missioncov: I do feel compelled to reply to your statement about “the accountability of a person in a position of leadership in the church” I wanted to clarify this statement as I’m sure this isn’t what you meant to say, but for a moment I thought you made it sound like church leaders are without sin.

My experiences in two different churches, one the beloved Covenant church of my youth and one in another denomination, have shown me one thing, “That we are ALL sinners and have fallen short of the glory of God”. Surely proudness, hatred, lying and gossip, etc, are sins our elected church leaders should not have, but yet these are just what I have seen some fervent church leaders possess, especially in dealing with the issue of homosexuality! And this breaks my heart……………..

I am thankful for this forum and pray that it may help people of the Covenant come to a better understanding of homosexualityand open new avenues for the denomination.

The point could be made that all sin is innate. The Bible talks about how “There is no one righteous, not even one; there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one” (Rom. 3:10-12). This includes idolaters, adulterers, male prostitues, homosexual offenders, slanderers, swindlers (1 Cor. 6: 9-10). We all stuggle with different sins, and we are born with them. That doesn’t mean it’s okay to act on these sins, or rejoice when we fall. We all fail when fighting against sin, that’s why we need Jesus. And you’re right, I don’t understand what that is like to struggle with being born a homosexual, and unfortunately it is seen as a “worse” sin when it’s not. I struggle with many sins, and hope that no one starts to tell me that I can justify my sin because I’m born with it.

Would it be okay if a single heterosexual slept around because she couldn’t deny her desires for a sexual relationship?

Also I have heard many times people say that the Bible doesn’t talk about homosexuality as a sin, but I wonder what people read when they read Romans 1: 26-27. I’m not saying this does not mean supporting them and loving them, but how can you react to people who slander and gossip in a negative way, if they are born with that sin, because you can just read away every passage in the Bible that points out sinful behaviour. Couldn’t you do that with every passage you didn’t like?
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